Adventures In the Sky Podcast – E02

Flying Fillies: Adventures In The Sky Podcast E02

Lisa Taylor, Executive Director, The National WASP WWII Museum

Welcome to the Adventures In The Sky Podcast! Watch the video version below and subscribe on your favorite podcast platforms including Amazon Podcast, iTunes, Google Podcasts, Spotify, Deezer, and more.

In this episode, I have the chance to speak one-on-one with Lisa Taylor, Executive Director of the National WASP WWII Museum.

First, a BIG thank you to Lisa for sharing many wonderful stories about the National WASP WWII Museum in Sweetwater, Texas.

I hope you enjoy this podcast. Here are select highlights with timecodes for your easy reference:

Story Highlights

03:24 – Planning an event at the museum

06:07 – Biggest Challenges As The Executive Director Of The National WASP WWII Museum

07:00 – Educational Tools

09:10 – How the museum acquired an AT-6

13:38 – What’s the one story about the WASP that you’ve encountered that has stuck with and inspired you?

24:16 – “That’s a lie. Women don’t fly for the military. You’re making this up.

30:34 – The WASP uniform

33:16 – Expansion – Second Hanger

38:16 – If you had a time machine…

Podcast Transcript

Christy Hui :
Welcome to our podcast, everyone. I have the pleasure of speaking with Lisa Taylor, executive director of the National WASP World War II Museum. Lisa, would you do me the honor of introducing yourself to our audience?

Lisa Taylor :
Well, hi, Christy. As you said, I’m Lisa Taylor with the WASP World War II Museum. I’ve been the executive director here for almost five years that I’ve been in this role, and it’s been a wonderful time getting to know more WASP families and being part of preserving their history, and promoting their legacy, and protecting the airfield on which they served.

Christy Hui :
That’s wonderful. Now, I also realize that perhaps lately, you have expanded on your mission statement. Do you care to talk about that?

Lisa Taylor :
Yes, you know, the expansion was really promoting the legacy. You know, the museum’s been here for 20 years, and the WASP are the foundation, and they always will be. And, you know, when you come to visit the museum, it really is three-fourths about them. But the expansion has come into legacy pilots, right?

Because we know that the WASP broke that glass ceiling, they paved the way for other women to come and fly in the military. And so we’re connecting the dots to our modern pilots, and we feel like that’s really important, you know, because the WASP were real mentors to that next generation of women that flew.

They actually started an organization called Women Military Aviators, and they reached out to that second generation and said, “Come be part of this group and let us mentor you. We can help you because we’ve been through the same thing.” And so it made sense that we would just connect those dots to generations of today so that we have tangible women that our audiences can relate with.

Christy Hui :
Well, that’s a wonderful mission because I met you at the Homecoming event, the fly-in event in April, and what a fine job you and your team did, and a great testimony of your mission. Tell me, how much effort does it take to organize an event like that?

Lisa Taylor :
Months. It really does because it’s several events wrapped up into one. You know, so we have an event that really honors the families of the WASP because as of 2019… I’m sorry, but as of 2021, we have no more WASP coming. You know, this was started for them, they used to come back to Avenger Field, that’s why we called it Homecoming.

And, you know, back in our heyday, we would have 30 WASP here. But they’re all over 100 now, so they stay at home, but their families come, so we have all these sub-events where we honor their families. And of course, the museum is open for tours, and we bring in airplanes, and we have planes flying, we have symposiums that… You know, you got to be a speaker for us last year, which was so great. You were there among some other authors. And then we have a fundraising gala that helps us continue our expansion and our mission. So it’s months of work.

Christy Hui :
Yeah, I felt the energy there too. And just being with the Kin of the WASP, you know, you feel their legacy and their spirits in that hangar, and it’s just so… I have to say that that was my first time being at a Homecoming event. It really touched me, and it’s a very moving experience. So you and your team are to be commended for preserving that history, you know? It’s a marvelous job you did.

Lisa Taylor :
Thank you.

Christy Hui :
I just hope that a lot of people will be coming in the years to come.

Lisa Taylor :
I hope so, too. You know, it is a great time to learn about them and learn about what they did. And then you also get to meet those younger pilots who are so excited about the WASP, and, you know, they don’t take that limelight on themselves, they just shine it back to the WASP, and so it’s just a great, you know… It’s emotional, but then it’s also educational and fun. So, yeah, I hope will come.

Christy Hui :
Why is it important to preserve the WASP legacy or history in general?

Lisa Taylor :
It’s just so important to understand where we came from because, you know when we look back and see what the people before us have done, it informs our decisions about the future. It gives us courage, maybe that we can move on and do things that we previously didn’t think that we could do. And, you know, obviously, it can serve as a cautionary tale, but it’s important to not lose sight of who we are.

Christy Hui :
Well said. In your opinion, what are the biggest challenges you face as an executive director of the museum?

Lisa Taylor :
I think it is getting people to stop and take a look at who the WASP were. I think, you know, we have some great opportunities to reach this youngest generation, but we just have to pivot. In the past, we’ve had a lot of World War II veterans who came and visited, and they loved it because they had that connection.

And so for us, it’s presenting it in a way that’s meaningful to our younger generations, you know, because every generation has their own style of learning and expressing themselves, and we just have to meet them where they’re at, right? It’s our responsibility to put it in a language that they understand and show them how meaningful it could be. So I think it’s just driving that engagement to the next generation.

Christy Hui :
Mmm-hmm. So what have you offered in terms of educational tools and interactive features that the new generation is more responsive to?

Lisa Taylor :
We do a lot more hands-on. Less talking, more showing, that’s what we have to do. And so, for instance, we were at an air show in Houston a couple of weeks ago, and, you know, in the past, we would’ve had our airplane flying in the show, and we would’ve had an educational booth, but this time, we chose not to fly, and we had the plane static, which seems so counterintuitive, but what we did is we wrapped the educational exhibit around that plane, and then we had about 400 people get up on the wing of the airplane and look in this World War II 80-year-old aircraft.

And, you know, all of a sudden, they’re much more interested in the WASP, and where this plane came from, and what it did, because they’re standing there and they’re looking inside of a cockpit that is completely foreign to their modern way of thinking. And then you grab their attention.

You know, then you have it. So it’s getting a lot more like that. You know, or when we have school kids come through the museum, we tell them about the WASP, but we tell them through holograms and video, and then we pull out activity stations, and they get to rivet, they get to wire tie, practice some navigation, and make sentences in Morse code. You know, so we want that engagement.

Christy Hui :
Mmm-hmm. Evoking their curiosity.

Lisa Taylor :
Yes. Right. Right.

Christy Hui :
And planes, right? Who doesn’t like planes? Kids love planes, right?

Lisa Taylor :
Yeah, they do, for the most part. And what’s fun for us now is we have four airplanes in this hangar, and they represent every level of training. And so that’s been a lot of fun too, for them to… You know, when we tell them, “Oh, they had to start in one plane and graduate to the next plane,” again, they’re touching, they’re feeling, they’re looking. It’s not just academic.

Christy Hui :
Now, you recently acquired a new plane. Tell us that story.

Lisa Taylor :
It’s a great story. You know, it’s the AT-6, which… That was the advanced trainer for the men and women. If you were training in World War II, you wouldn’t have graduated without proving you could fly that airplane. And it was the favorite among the men and women because it has so much horsepower, right? So, you know, think about it, before they came into the WASP, I mean, the ladies were flying just these little lightweight airplanes for fun. So even a basic trainer was a lot more than they were used to handling.

By the time they got to the AT-6, it was 600 horsepower, zippy, very maneuverable. So the women loved it. So we weren’t, honestly, even fundraising for a plane two years ago. I was working on new exhibits, you know, making more interactive exhibits like I’ve been talking about, you know, less wordy, more show and tell.

And the son of a WASP called me and said, “Hey, I have a significant amount of money I’d like to give you, but only for a T-6. And I don’t care how long it takes you to get one, but I’m gonna give you this money, and you gotta hang on to it until you can apply it toward a plane.” And I said, “Ooh, man, this is great.”

And I, of course, thanked him, and I just threw it out on social media, “Hey, we have this money, we need this much more.” And in 18 months’ time, we were buying an airplane. You know, people just rose to the occasion because they knew what an important airplane that was to the men and women who flew in World War II, and this museum needed one. What better museum to have that, you know? That represents the women of World War II.

Christy Hui :
That’s just an incredible story on so many levels.

Lisa Taylor :
I know. Yeah.

Christy Hui :
You got social media helping you and the son of a WASP stepping up. Now, that AT-6 also represents the last plane in the lineup for your museum, right?

Lisa Taylor :
The last of it.

Christy Hui :
‘Cause it completes your airplane collection.

Lisa Taylor :
It does. It does. There’s one more basic trainer that we could get because they used one basic trainer in 1943 and one in 1944, we just have one of them. But then we have the basic, and then both of the advanced planes and so we feel pretty complete at this point. Happy. And the hangar is full.

Christy Hui :
Right, in order to get more planes, you’d have to get more hangers.

Lisa Taylor :
I would. Yes, I would have to fundraise for another entire hangar.

Christy Hui :
Yeah, with your ability to do an event like that, I was there in person, I just… I would have no doubt that you would do that. Now you have the PT-17, right? And the PT-19.

Lisa Taylor :
We actually have the PT-19 in the building, the Stearman, not the 17. That’s the one that we don’t have here.

Christy Hui :
I see.

Lisa Taylor :
Right. And then we have the BT-13, the basic 13, the Vultee. And then we have, of course, the AT-6, and then the UC-78.

Christy Hui :
UC-78. Okay. That’s great. And now, are the planes the WASP’s favorites too, when they come to the museum? Or when they came to the museum?

Lisa Taylor :
Yes. And I wish we’d had more planes when they came. You know, as we’ve gotten bigger in our ability to buy airplanes and get people here to bring their airplanes, you know, as that has grown, of course, the number of WASP has shrunk, and I only wish that more could have been with us to see this day, you know? We’re down to a point now, where we have about 10 WASP left. And so this is turning into an “In memory of” kind of museum, which just makes me sad, you know? It’s not what I want. But they adored those airplanes, they didn’t care about anything else but the airplanes.

Christy Hui :
Yeah, it must have been sad to have the WASP not being able to come to an event like that.

Lisa Taylor :
Yeah. It is, and that’s all our veterans, of course, it’s not just the women, but, you know, it’s been a long time since that war, so it makes sense.

Christy Hui :
Mmm-hmm. What’s the one story about the WASP that you’ve encountered that has stuck with you and inspired you?

Lisa Taylor :
I think for me, it has been the fact that they were all pilots when they entered their service. You know, the men, they didn’t have to be pilots, but the women did. And, you know, before I learned about the WASP, I didn’t even know women were flying that early. I had no idea that they started flying just nine years after the Wright Brothers made their debut flight.

And I always laugh, you know, that women might be behind the curve. You can slow a woman down, but you can’t hold her down, right? She’s gonna go look if she wants to learn. And I was just amazed that they learned how to fly, they took the time, and the money, and the risk, right? And they wanted so much to fly professionally, but they didn’t know if that opportunity would even be there for them. They just did it and hoped. And when the opportunity opened up, they were ready.

They had everything they needed to walk through that door. And it’s just my favorite thing to tell kids because it’s impacted me. I think about my own personality, and I tend to like the safe side of the street. I don’t like to waste time, I hate to waste money, and it’s limited to what I’ve been willing to do. And I wonder how different my life might’ve been if I had taken bigger risks.

And I just like that they did that, and then look what they got to do. You know, it didn’t necessarily end well for them because, of course, the program was disbanded, they weren’t allowed to fly professionally after the war, but yet they have their place in history, and what they did mattered. Even if it didn’t work out great for them, it mattered. And it built a bridge for those women coming behind them. And I think we should all be bridge builders in one way or another.

Christy Hui :
Oh, definitely. And they shattered the glass ceilings, and showing, you know, the new generation, be included with everyone, that there’s no limit.

Lisa Taylor :
Right.

Christy Hui :
If you set your heart to it, you’re gonna get it done.

Lisa Taylor :
Yeah.

Christy Hui :
And, you know, there was one story that I heard you told recently in an event about the B-29. Do you mind telling our audience that? That’s an incredible story, Lisa.

Lisa Taylor :
Oh, it is. It is. You know, one of the things that really set the WASP apart from the men is that you know, the men would’ve been trained in one primary airplane, and they would have flown that one airplane through the duration of the war. Occasionally, they might have been trained in a second airplane, but, you know, for the most part, that’s what they did, their one airplane, which is great, and the service they did was valiant. I never wanna take away from what our men did.

But the women had to be ready to fly everything. When they graduated from the program, they flew in all 77 aircraft. So from one day to the next, you could go from one type of pursuit plane to another, one type of bomber to another, and so they were just always ready.

And they lived and died by the manual because they didn’t have muscle memory to rely on. So they flew very carefully, and they did it just by the book. Well, when the B-29 was developed, you know, it came to life in 18 months. Boeing put it together, and it was record time, right? The president was putting a lot of pressure, “We need this kind of airplane, we’ve got to end this war.”

So Boeing came through when they did. It had some issues in the beginning, they went back, they tweaked, and they fixed. But there still was one issue of, you know, it’s a four-engine plane, and the engines, if you didn’t fly it by the book, one in… You know, an engine could catch on fire, it was not that unusual. And if it caught on fire, there was a protocol that you had to follow to land safely.

Well, Colonel Paul Tibbets was put in charge of this program, and it was a secret program, and he had to recruit the men to fly it, you know, put his squadron together so that they could go in and get the job done. And he was getting so much pushback from the men. They didn’t wanna fly it, they were very uncomfortable with how it could catch fire, and they were refusing, they called it a widow-maker, which blew my mind ’cause I didn’t even know you could tell a colonel you weren’t gonna fly an airplane, but they did.

So he was at his wit’s end. He knew about the WASP, and so he walked into Eglin Air Force Base unannounced. He found a WASP who happened to be sitting in the nurses’ waiting room, just reading a magazine, waiting for another friend who was up in the air flying.

And he walks up to her with no preamble and he says, “Do you know how to fly a four-engine airplane?” And she said, “Oh, no, sir. None of us do. Two engines is the most. But I’ve got a friend that’s flying right now, and she’s done a little more advanced flying than the rest of us, but none of us can do four engines.” So he said, “Well, when she gets down, you come visit me.”

So they did, and he asked them if they’d like to train on the B-29, and they didn’t hesitate, they said, “Yes, sir, absolutely.” He, of course, left out all of the trouble that he’d been having. He simply made an offer, and he trained them. And so, on day three, Didi Moorman happens to be in the left seat, and one of the engines catches fire, and she just doesn’t miss a beat. You know, she instructs the technical engineer to extinguish the fire, she feathers the props. You know, everybody does what they’re supposed to do, and she lands very calmly on the other three engines. And he looks at her, and he says, “All right, you’re ready,” or “Y’all are ready.” And they said, “Ready to do what, sir?”

And he said, “Well, we’re gonna go train the men how to fly this.” And so that’s what they did, they went off to their first Air Force base, and the men were out on the flight line, they’d been told that a B-29 was coming in, that they were gonna have some training. So this big bird goes through the sky and makes a gorgeous landing. The men are impressed, they’re going out there to shake hands with the pilot, and out the door steps two beautiful WASP.

And you can imagine how the men were taken aback, and they kind of stumbled backward a little bit. But the ladies, they spent time training them, and they did this at about three different bases before Paul Tibbets’ commanders sent him a telegram and said, “We think your demonstration has gone on long enough.” And sure enough, it had, there was no complaining about flying it. You know, it’s just such a proud moment for the ladies because, you know, they only flew stateside, they didn’t fly combat, but what an assist, right?

Christy Hui :
Right.

Lisa Taylor :
I mean, we would’ve won the war eventually, but, you know, it wouldn’t have ended as fast without their involvement, specifically in the B-29 as well as in so many other endeavors, so that’s a great moment.

Christy Hui :
Yeah, I think that story has always captured me in terms of, yes, the WASP were courageous, but they were excellent pilots, and their ability to stay calm, you know? And to manage, as you said, what the colonel taught them, which is to overcome the engine design flaw by being calm and follow the instructions, right? And then they turn around and teach the male pilots the same way of dealing with this risk, and that’s what helps the male pilots realize, “Okay, it’s safe to fly. We can manage this,” right? And I love how it ends. Like, you know, 51 years later, a male pilot sends a letter to Dora, remember? And to thank her, that, you know, thank her for the training that Dora and Didi gave them and to help the male pilots overcome this fear.

Lisa Taylor :
Yeah.

Christy Hui :
I just love that story, that the conformational affirmation came 51 years later.

Lisa Taylor :
Yeah. Yeah. And a lot of connections like that were made, you know, later at Oshkosh and different places, when the WASP ran into the Tuskegee airmen who… You know, the WASP always defended the Tuskegee in social circles, and those Tuskegee came and found them at Oshkosh and said, “Oh my word, we were stationed with you at Mather Air Force Base. You stuck up for us.” You know, so there was all these connections that came later. It was just really beautiful.

Christy Hui :
It’s just very empowering, right? And not only just for women but also you bring out the other, like the Tuskegee airmen too. So, yeah, the WASP have that magic.

Lisa Taylor :
They do. Mmm-hmm.

Christy Hui :
You mentioned that, in a few ways, they have inspired you in your personal life because of the way you are, and we are all the way we are, but, you know, what other traits and qualities have you come to learn from the WASP that inspires you?

Lisa Taylor :
Yeah, I like how they took care of themselves. Like, you know, they could have certainly complained and cried foul about so many things, but they never did that, and their goal was just to be kind and be the best pilot in the room. Because it’s hard to argue with you, right?

If you are kind and you’re good at your job. And that’s how they set out to win people over. You know, we’re just gonna be really good pilots, and we’re gonna serve well. And they did. They just rolled with the punches, and they drew boundary lines where they needed to, but they towed their own line, they were just so self-reliant. They helped each other, but they didn’t look for other groups to bail them out. And I just like that, and maybe that’s just my sense of independence, you know, that’s the way I was raised, right? But I really like that about them.

Christy Hui :
Confident.

Lisa Taylor :
Mmm-hmm.

Christy Hui :
They’re confident, they do the job that they signed up to do.

Lisa Taylor :
Yep. Yep.

Christy Hui :
You know, there’s no entitlement.

Lisa Taylor :
No, no.

Christy Hui :
Yeah.

Lisa Taylor :
One of my favorite stories, just to show you kinda how they handled things, is, you know, after they’d proven that they could fly as well as the men, they were finally given uniforms. And, of course, these uniforms involved pants, they flew in pants. And women, really… A single woman wasn’t always given a hotel room. Like, your clerk had a right to ask, “Well, why are you traveling alone?” Or, “Where’s your husband?” I mean, you could be denied a hotel room for any kind of reason.

And so these women would show up wearing pants, and the clerks would say, “What business are you in?” And they’d say, “Well, we fly airplanes for the military.” And they would be met just with complete disbelief, and they would say, “That’s a lie. Women don’t fly for the military.

You’re making this up.” And oftentimes, they would deny them a room. And it got so bad, one night, they got a room, and the girls always shared because they only got a stipend, so they would all pile in a room and share it ’cause they were really trying to spread their money.

And one night, they’d gotten a room, they’d gone to dinner, they came back, they flipped on the light, and a sheriff was sitting on the bed and just saying, “We don’t need your kind in town. We don’t know what you’re really up to, but obviously you’re liars and loose women who wear pants,” basically, you know? So they had to pack up and leave. And so they said, “What are we gonna do? We can’t keep going on like this on these cross-country trips.” And so this is the plan they devised: The next time they went to get a hotel room, the clerk said, “Who are you? What are you doing here?” They said, “Oh, we’re elevator operators.” And the guy bought it, that made sense to him. Like, it’s wartime, women are doing a lot of men’s jobs. I can see a woman being an elevator operator. Cool, here’s your room.

Christy Hui :
They’re so clever. So resourceful.

Lisa Taylor :
They didn’t go complaining, they didn’t go to their commander and say, “What are you gonna do about this?” Like, they just went, “Aha. Okay, let’s just make up a plausible story and move on.” Their egos weren’t wrapped up in it.

Christy Hui :
Right, they roll with the punches and just kind of get the job done.

Lisa Taylor :
Yeah.

Christy Hui :
Love that. Yeah.

Lisa Taylor :
I do, too.

Christy Hui :
Oh, my goodness. What’s the one thing you want people to walk away with during their visit at the museum?

Lisa Taylor :
I want them to walk away with a couple of things. I mean, first of all, you know, dig down deep and find something you care about. You know? You go set a history for someone else. Or if there’s something that you really wanna do with your life, but you’re afraid, work through those barriers, right? The WASP had to overcome technological barriers, social barriers, and their own personal barriers, just like everyone else. Like, time has not changed that, we’re still humans.

And so, walk away and go, “What’s stopping me from doing what I really wanna do in this life?” And work through those barriers and go fix it, you know? And go do it. So I want them to walk away with that, and I also want them to walk away with a sense of pride in something that our country did. The threat of World War II was real, and our country banded together to save the world from tyranny, and what they did mattered. And we need to be brave and ready to step in if we ever need to do something like that again.

Christy Hui :
Yeah, it’s definitely a good value for every generation to carry on that spirit, right? How do you think the WASP program impacted the role women play in the military today?

Lisa Taylor :
It impacted it in that they didn’t have… That the women today didn’t have to prove that they could fly military aircraft. You know, that had already been proven. You know, that second generation that came in the seventies, they had to prove that they could coexist as official military members, and that was a whole other level of controversy. But in terms of proving that women could fly just as well as men, that had been done. You know, 35 years earlier, it had been done, and so that was one less thing that the women in the seventies had to prove.

Christy Hui :
They had an example.

Lisa Taylor :
They did, and then with the mentoring, you know, when they would get together and… You know, I haven’t heard all the stories ’cause, really, the WASP were pretty private. And I know there’s some big stories underneath there that they won’t necessarily spill, but they get together with those other female pilots, and they’ll talk about how they handled discrimination or men who just wanted to run them down.

And they’ll talk about the difficulties of, like, you know, flying cross country and not having a way to go to the bathroom, you know? And clothes that don’t fit. Because even in the military today, women are dealing with clothes that really don’t fit too well. So, you know, they had someone to mentor them through all of that.

Christy Hui :
Yeah. They needed it, too.

Lisa Taylor :
Yeah, they really did.

Christy Hui :
A role model. It’s the role model, you know? They have been through that, all of it, and more, actually. It’s rewarding. Yeah, it’s comforting, ’cause every generation, when you go through… And I’m sure that after one set of barriers have been worked through, there’s another level of barriers.

Lisa Taylor :
Right.

Christy Hui :
You know? So having a role model that has gone through and shattered the glass ceilings, to guide them along, to give them words of wisdom. Right? And that’s encouragement.

Lisa Taylor :
That’s great. Yeah.

Christy Hui :
You have fighter pilots on the board right now, too, Lisa, right?

Lisa Taylor :
We do, we actually have an active-duty pilot, which has been fun. And then we have several that are retired. And then one that is retired from the Air Force, but she still flies for United, so it’s been fun to have their involvement.

Christy Hui :
You mentioned a little bit about the WASP uniform, the Santiago Blue. Can you talk about that? I love that story.

Lisa Taylor :
Yeah, it’s a great story. You know, when the program started, the women just had surplus men’s flight suits in size 44 long. That was it. And so, you know, think about it, that fits a man who’s about 6’3″, 230 pounds. That’s who it was made for., And so they have little women coming in, some of them weren’t so little, but most of them, you know, around that 3′ to 5’5″ range, you know, a hundred and something pounds wet, and they’re being given these suits.

And so, of course, they’re making lemonade right out of those lemons. And they roll ’em up, and they belt ’em in, and they cinch ’em up, and they do what they can to look neat and presentable. But yes, after they’d proven that their passing rate was as good as the men’s, they were approved for an official uniform. And Jackie Cochran, their commander, was told, you know, go make something in the standard khaki army color. So she…

Of course, legend says she said that her girls, which is what the WASP were, her girls were not gonna wear that ugly color. And so she went to Bergdorf Goodman, and she said, “I need two uniforms designed, one in the khaki or olive color. And then the other, I wanna use this blue.” I’m sure they had her choose from all their blue clothes, and it was the Santiago blue.

And so they had them made, and then of course, Jackie, she was so shrewd, it was these men that were gonna be making the decision, and so she hired two models, a very average looking model, and she put that lady in that olive color, and then she got a really beautiful model, and she put her in the blue, and sent them both down the runway. And it was a no-brainer for those guys, they picked the beautiful woman in the blue uniform. And to our knowledge, that was the first time that the armed forces used blue. So Jackie left her mark in the military world too.

Christy Hui :
Thanks to her, it’s now all Santiago blue.

Lisa Taylor :
Yes.

Christy Hui :
That’s great. I love that story always. Fashion works, right?

Lisa Taylor :
It does. It always does, yeah. It does. And they were so proud of those uniforms. It was really great.

Christy Hui :
Well, they look so beautiful and great.

Lisa Taylor :
Mmm-hmm.

Christy Hui :
So now, what exciting initiatives are you working on at the museum now?

Lisa Taylor :
So we’ve just finished up an expansion. We have two hangers on our property that we use as exhibit galleries. And one of them is a historic hangar, it was built in 1928, and it served as the first airport for the city of Sweetwater. And, you know, partly it was why Sweetwater was chosen as the location for the WASP, because it had a state-of-the-art Field Army Air Corps base. And then it had a working airport, which, you know, not every town did. And it had regular flights in and out.

So when the museum started, the city let us buy it for $1, and that’s where the museum started. And then we built a replica hanger on the same property and moved, you know, climate-controlled. And so, you know, we made new exhibits and moved into that hangar. But this historic hangar is where our airplanes are, and we just finished fabricating all new exhibits for this historic hangar.

And so, it’s just a lot of fun because it’s very much in the look and the feel of the day. You know, it’s the army green with red, and it’s got beautiful displays around the perimeter, and then for the airplanes. And we have a replica bay, which is the living quarters for the WASP. And so you walk over there, and a hologram starts talking to you, “Hey, I didn’t see you there.” You know, she tells you about what it’s like to train and to live on Avenger Field. So it’s been fun.

We debuted it a couple of weeks ago. It’s been beautiful. So that’s good, and then we’re gonna continue with our expansion. We’re gonna be doing a lot of outdoor exhibits in our plaza, and then eventually, moving into the other hangar. So we have about three more years of expansion.

And, you know, the reason we’re doing this is we have the information. I mean, we have it all today, and if you come, you’re gonna learn everything you wanted to know about the WASP and more. But, you know, as I said at the beginning, we want this to be friendly for the youngest generation, but we also want it to be the highest quality that we can offer these women. Because, you know, I think about all the other World War II museums that focus on our men. And our men deserve to be honored like that, I never wanna take away from that, but our women do too.

And, you know, I don’t want their museum to be a hand-me-down. I want them to have a first-class jewel-box museum. And so that’s what we’re working to create, and we’re proud of what we have today, and we’re gonna elevate it. And, you know, in three years’ time, I think it’s gonna be right there with anybody else’s museum.

Christy Hui :
That’s why I love your team. You know, you have put in so much work and passion into preserving the WASP legacy, and then you are adding to it too, and elevating it, like you said. I can’t wait to come to see what you have done. It’s been launched already, right?

Lisa Taylor :
It has been. It has been. So, yes, I hope you will come. The only drawback is, you know, at our Homecoming event, that hanger, ’cause it’s also a working hanger, so that hanger is gonna be kind of taken apart, you know, because the planes will be out on the field, and so it won’t look like a museum that day. I mean, you know, the other hanger will, but the historic hangar, it gets used for a lot of different activities over that weekend, so you’ll have to come during a different time too.

Christy Hui :
Yeah, I’ll stay longer. I’ll stay for a week.

Lisa Taylor :
There we go. You have to stay with me.

Christy Hui :
I’d love that. I’ve heard about the NBC pilot.

Lisa Taylor :
Yes.

Christy Hui :
About Avenger Field. Can you talk about it?

Lisa Taylor :
Unfortunately, there’s not a lot to say right now. I think that the actor strike and the writer strike…

Christy Hui :
Oh, that’s right.

Lisa Taylor :
Yeah. I think it put a pretty big dent in it. And I think behind the scenes, there’s probably a lot more going on than anyone knows or understands, but I think there’s probably some regrouping going on. You know, we wanna see it happen so much. You know, if you’ve seen the movie “Hidden Figures”, I see that movie on a repeat, it’s just one of my favorites. And I so much want to see something like that for the WASP, and I hope that it’ll be out there soon. But right now, there’s just not a lot to say.

Christy Hui :
That’s right, ’cause there was a writer strike, and now the actors too.

Lisa Taylor :
Right, the writers… Yeah, the writers-

Christy Hui :
The writer is over. Right. So hopefully soon, we’ll get some updates from you.

Lisa Taylor :
Yes, when there are updates to be told and had, I’ll gladly bring that forward.

Christy Hui :
Yeah. Now, a fun question. We’re channeling Dr. Brown’s “Back to the Future.” We’ve got a time machine ready to send a 12-year-old girl back to the WASP days. And that would be you. What moment would you pick, and why?

Lisa Taylor :
I would probably… Hmm. Which one would I pick? I know it would be during service, you know, because that’s where the action is, and 12-year-old me always wanted to be right where the action is. And so, you know, it may very well have been that moment when Colonel Tibbets walked in and grabbed those two WASPs. It could have been that moment. But I would want to see them in action, you know? And just see how they responded to this constant changing environment. And, you know, it would just be fun to… Like I think about Nell Bright, who’s still with us, and she flew the B-25, and she just had a lot of adventures, you know, serious adventures and humorous adventures, where they made mistakes.

And, you know, to be able to be in the cargo and just fly with her and watch what she does. You know, she was one of the ones that stood up for the Tuskegee when they weren’t allowed to eat in the officer’s mess, even though they were officers. You know, they were down with the enlisted men, and she stood up and said, “This isn’t right. They need to eat with the officers.”

And then when they were brought in to eat with those officers, all the WASPs sat with the Tuskegee, angering the white men as you can well imagine. And, you know, so just to follow Nell around and see what she did with her life, I think it would’ve been so fascinating. And she went on to be the first female stockbroker in Arizona, the first female to own her own brokerage firm, and one of the first two women on the New York Stock Exchange floor. So that was her whole life. You know, just a first.

Christy Hui :
Love that. A woman who can stand up for herself and others.

Lisa Taylor :
Yes, right. She knew what was good and right, and so, yeah, if she would’ve let me follow her around like a puppy dog, and I probably would’ve done that.

Christy Hui :
I could see that, Lisa. A young Lisa running around.

Lisa Taylor :
Yeah.

Christy Hui :
Avenger Field. Avenger Field, yeah.

Lisa Taylor :
Kinda like your character in “Flying Fillies.”

Christy Hui :
Yes, a little Dawn Springfield.

Lisa Taylor :
Yes.

Christy Hui :
I have some final thoughts. Now, Fifinella, if you can hang out with her, this cartoon character, what would you say to her?

Lisa Taylor :
Oh, goodness. I would tell her to really mind those boys, you know? They come in and mess up the airplanes and cause all that trouble, and I would say, “Now, don’t get caught up in all their fun. Remember that you’re here to protect the girls, and don’t let those boys blow you off track with their shenanigans. You know, you be the strong one.”

Christy Hui :
I love it. Now, you have a great job. I mean, I really love museums, that’s my personal passion. So to work in a museum, it’s fascinating to me. So if there are young people listening and they wanna follow in your footsteps, what advice would you give them?

Lisa Taylor :
You need to be a lifelong learner. You need to understand that learning never stops. If you’re gonna work in a museum, it’s an ever-changing landscape, and you’re gonna have to keep up. You know, you can’t be like, “I got my degree, I did my internship, and now I can rest.”

Because it’s a very dynamic environment, which maybe sounds funny because you’re thinking about, well, you know, you’re representing history, that’s static, right? You’re representing something that’s in the past, but the thing is, you’re always promoting it to the future.

And you have to be a student of communication, of art, of hospitality, marketing, all those things. And so my big admonishment is if you… Or encouragement, sorry, not the other, is if you get your foot in the door at a museum, learn about all the different roles in that museum, especially if you’re in a small museum. Because you cannot exist in a vacuum, there’s no such thing as, “Well, this is my job, and I don’t do that over there,” because it takes all of us. With a small staff, you are all in a life raft together, right? And you’re either gonna make it to the other side together, or you’re going to drown together.

And so it’s important to know how to do everyone’s job and to be willing to step up and help. And it’s very rich and rewarding. It’s a lot… Honestly, it’s just fun when you have that comradery. But yeah, just learn. Constantly learn.

Christy Hui :
That is just great advice, you know, just to be a sponge and know that every part is connected, right? And one job is… One job impacts the next person’s job, so you are supporting each other as an ecosystem.

Lisa Taylor :
Yeah, none of us have what I call, like, a clean job where, you know, I have well-defined borders. I mean, we are just… Where one leaves off, one takes on, you know? And it’s kind of flowing back and forth. And it’s hard sometimes to even define what one person does versus another because we are just in it to win it all the time.

Christy Hui :
What’s the favorite part of your job?

Lisa Taylor :
It’s interacting with people in the museum and at the air shows. It’s when I can get out there with people and just talk about the WASP, and tell the stories, and see the excitement in their eyes, and listen and receive, you know, because so many times, they have even better stories than mine.

If they’ve been around the WASP for a long time, they end up delighting me with their stories. I like talking to those legacy pilots and learning about their experiences. So, yeah, there’s a lot of parts of my job that are kind of nuts and bolts, and, you know, they’re not glamorous. But when I’m out with the people, that’s a lot of fun.

Christy Hui :
Did you know about the WASP before you worked at the museum?

Lisa Taylor :
Yes, but not long before that. And which was just a crying shame because I have a background in teaching, and I taught World War II history. And, you know, it was one of my favorite things to teach, not because it was war, but because of the way that the whole world came together, or our country came together, right? So not just women going into factories.

I mean, you had kids, you had young boys going off to win missions, but then everyone at home was growing victory gardens, and you had five-year-olds that had metal detectors, and they were trying to find extra aluminum for the war effort, you know? And furniture factories were making war instruments, and people were doing without cars, right? Because there was a war.

And I just like comradery, and so I tried to teach it as holistically as I knew how. And so I knew about a lot of the extra groups, the Merchant Marines, and the Tuskegee, and the Navajo Code Talkers. But nowhere in my realm of reading did the WASP come up, not once. It was just shocking. So we moved to Sweetwater a year before I started in this job, and I saw this WASP museum and went, “What is that?” And I was just captivated and angry. I just thought, “How? How do we not know about this?” Because, I mean, they served for two years, you know?

There was over 1,000 of them that flew. They flew 66 million miles in two years. I mean, that was not nothing, right? They did every stateside job, every single one of them, and we can’t put ’em in a history book? That just does not compute. And I know World War II history is vast, and, you know, as a teacher, I already taught on it a good four weeks back in the day. They don’t do that anymore. But back in the day, that’s what I did. And so, I know you can’t contain all the elements of World War II, but, to me, it seems like this one was important enough to get included.

Christy Hui :
That’s why your job is so impactful and so meaningful. You know, it’s like it’s meant to be for you to do.

Lisa Taylor :
Yeah. Yeah.

Christy Hui :
I believe in synchronicity.

Lisa Taylor :
Yeah. Yeah. No, it’s been wonderful to be able to teach about it because, you know, I’ll always be a teacher at heart, and, you know, when you ask me my favorite parts of the job, I mean, really it is that, even if I’m talking or interacting, it’s the teaching that I just really enjoy.

Christy Hui :
And that’s what you’re doing.

Lisa Taylor :
Yeah.

Christy Hui :
Now, if someone wants to donate to the museum, how do they go about it?

Lisa Taylor :
Oh, it’s easy. The easiest way is to go to WASPmuseum.org, and we have a donation page. I think you can just do WASPmuseum.org/donation. But we do have a page, and, you know, you can just give to the general fund, but there’s also specifics, you know, some people like to give specifically for the care of the aircraft or for education, and we will do that. If you donate for something specific, you know, like the people that donated for the T-6, and we put a fence around that money, and that’s what we’ll do with it. And you can call, we’re always happy to do that. Or, you know, go really old school and write a check.

Christy Hui :
PayPal. In every form. But don’t you love it if someone will say, “Hey, I’d like to give you money to buy a plane,”?

Lisa Taylor :
Yeah.

Christy Hui :
Sure. Love it. So, hopefully, you get some groundswell support.

Lisa Taylor :
I hope so. I appreciate you bringing that up. It does take money, but yeah… But, you know, I want everybody listening to think about putting Sweetwater on their route, right? If you’re driving cross country, we’re off I-20, and we’re a great place to stop and come in and spend a couple of hours, you know, reading and interacting, and then, you know, get back on your way. But it’s worth seeing.

Christy Hui :
And you can grab some wonderful barbecue, Texas barbecue along the way.

Lisa Taylor :
You can.

Christy Hui :
I was there. It was worth it. Lisa, I loved my museum visit with you. It’s my first time there. And actually, I’ve been.. first time seeing you, and as a speaker, but I have been at your museum, what, three times now? Every time I drive through Texas, I make a point to go there, just to feel the energy in Avenger Field, of the WASP spirit and the museum. It brings so much… It just inspires me. As you said, you know, when you walk into that ground, and you can feel the energy of these women, these spirited, courageous, and intelligent women, excellent pilots, I can learn so much just from being in that hangar.

Lisa Taylor :
Yeah. We always say there’s ghosts here. Their spirits are here. And we do have 13 WASP who have had their ashes spread on this field, so…

Christy Hui :
Oh, yes. In the Homecoming, there was one too.

Lisa Taylor :
There were two last year. Yeah, one on Friday and one on Saturday. And so that continues as well, it’s been really, really amazing for sure.

Christy Hui :
That’s why it’s so special.

Lisa Taylor :
Well, can I tell one more story and brag on you a little bit?

Christy Hui :
Well, absolutely.

Lisa Taylor :
So, one of my favorite tours, you know, we have school tours coming through here all the time, and we always start ’em off watching this, really, it’s like a life-sized film, very dynamic, and it has original footage of the WASP in there, and then modern things. It’s just… We’re really proud of that. So we always start the kids in there, and I always ask ’em lots of questions about the WASP, and most of the time, they know very little, if anything. And this group was just, like, they were answering questions right and left. And I looked at the teacher and said, “Wow, you’ve really prepared them well.”

And she said, “Oh, yeah, I got a class set of the ‘Flying Fillies’, and we just finished reading that.” And of course, that book, “Flying Fillies”, is by our own Christy Hui, so it was just such a fun moment, you know? Because your book hadn’t been out that long, and she just… You know, the kids just enjoyed it so much, and that’s why historical fiction is such a great way to learn, because, you know, you get brought in softly because there’s this great narrative wrapped around the facts, and then it makes you stop and think, “Okay, well, what are more facts? You know, what can I do?”

Christy Hui :
Well, that just brightens my day, Lisa.

Lisa Taylor :
Yeah.

Christy Hui :
But I have to add that the background of that is that I reached out to you asking for support, and when you said, “Yes, I will provide you with the photos,” that transformed my decade-long manuscript on the shelf into a book on the shelf. So you had that power, and you empowered me. Thank you, Lisa.

Lisa Taylor :
Oh, you’re welcome. It’s a fabulous book. And I’ve got little grand boys, and I can’t wait, you know, they need to get a couple of years older, but we’re gonna be hanging out on the couch, you know, in the next couple of years, we’re gonna read that book. And I always thought it’d be fun if you wrote it from an adolescent boy’s perspective. You know, what are all these women doing invading Sweetwater? That’s an angle for your next book.

Christy Hui :
Yes, yes. Book two, book three, hopefully.

Lisa Taylor :
Yeah.

Christy Hui :
But, yeah, thank you for sharing that last story, Lisa, I am always grateful to you for your support.

Lisa Taylor :
Oh, a pleasure.

Christy Hui :
Yeah, thank you for the stories. It’s so empowering to talk to you, Lisa. Thank you.

Lisa Taylor :
I feel the same way about you. Thank you.

Christy Hui :
You take care, okay? Thank you

Lisa Taylor :
Okay, thanks. All right, bye.

Christy Hui :
Bye-Bye.

That’s all for this episode. Thanks for listening to the Adventures In The Sky podcast. To all of you dreamers and doers, believe in your dreams, for when you dream and do, the sky’s the limit. Until our next story, unlock your extraordinary within and live inspired. To join the Flying Fillies Adventure Club, visit www.flyingfillies.com.

FLYING FILLIES — an inspiring WW2 book for kids is available on Amazon

Want to read more fun and educational blogs? Read this article on WW2 Facts For Kids! Happy reading.