Adventures In the Sky Podcast – E01

Flying Fillies: Adventures In The Sky Podcast Episode 1

Inspiring Story – A Talk with John Marsh, son of WASP Marie Barrette Marsh, 43-w-7

Welcome to the Adventures In The Sky Podcast! Watch the video version below and subscribe on your favorite podcast platforms including Amazon Podcast, iTunes, Google Podcasts, Spotify, Deezer, and more.

In this episode, I have the chance to speak one-on-one with John Marsh, whose mom is WASP Marie Barrette Marsh, class 43-7.

First, a BIG thank you to Mr. John Marsh for sharing many wonderful stories about his mom Marie and her WASP friends.

About John Marsh:

John Marsh is the eldest of eight children of WASP Marie Barrett Marsh. An accomplished pilot, John received his Master Pilot Award in 2016 from the FAA for fifty years of safe flying.

Here’s a highlight of some of my favorite segments: 

“But one of the stories they told was flying in as a pilot, you’d call the airports, ‘Hey, I’m 10 miles north inbound. Request landing instructions.’ Well, they did that in the B-17. After doing it once or twice, the tower came on the radio and said, ‘Would you ladies get off the radio? We’re trying to get a B-17 in.’ It never occurred to them the ladies would be flying.”

“I think women make better pilots than men. I think they’re more careful. When you’re flying the airplane, you don’t force this thing. You don’t manhandle it…. You’re gentle on the stick….”

I hope you enjoy this podcast. Here are select highlights with timecodes for your easy reference:

Story Highlights

2:26 – How mom developed an interest in flying and the planes she flew.

8:58 – Scary moments

10:24 – Give me hard aerobatics!

10:58 – Still love to fly

11:40 – Mom was an impressive pilot

14:15 – WASPs were humble!

15:25 – Air Force in 1976 didn’t know about previous female pilots

16:53 – How did being a WASP change mom’s life

17:56 – A WASP could fly a plane but not drive a car?!?

18:41 – Best piece of advice mom gave

19:38 – Staying in contact with the WASP

21:45 – Three words to describe the WASP

22:22 – Marty Wyall’s story

Podcast Transcript

Christy Hui:

Welcome to the Adventures In The Sky Podcast, sharing inspiring stories to empower you to be dreamers and doers, for the sky’s the limit. Proudly presented by Flying Fillies, an uplifting historical adventure book inspired by the Women Air Force Service Pilots, WASP, of World War II. As America’s female aviation pioneers, the WASP are the original power girls.

Hi, I’m Christy Hui, author of Flying Fillies. In every episode, you’ll hear stories from the WASP, Kin of WASP, Women Aviator Pioneers sharing their secrets to success. Their trials and tribulations paved their inner journey to becoming trailblazers.

Joining me today is John Marsh, son of a WASP, a woman Air Force Service pilot named Marie Barrett Marsh, class 43-7. It’s a pleasure to speak with you, John. What a wonderful gathering, the WASP Homecoming Event was in Sweetwater, Texas, and the WASP, as I said, are my personal heroes, and I love sharing their stories. So thank you for coming onto the show. Let’s get it started.

John Marsh:

Excellent. Well, I’m happy to see your interest in the WASP, and I’d be glad to answer any questions you might have.

Christy Hui:

Yes. Well, I love your mom’s story, and I think every WASP has her unique story. So in this episode, we want to focus on your mom and her story.

John Marsh:

Sure.

Christy Hui:

So not many people, let alone females, were flying 80 years ago. So as I was learning about these WASP stories, what really, really impressed me and got me intrigued was, how did this lady get started in the interest of flying? How did they develop that love for flying? And how did she manage to learn to fly back 80 years ago when it was so costly to take flying lessons? So how about let’s start with that?

John Marsh:

Well, my mother was in college, and at that time, I think World War II was on the horizon, and I think our country realized we didn’t have enough pilots to be sufficient, and they started a civilian pilot training program to train pilots to fly, and they mandated one out of 10 people should be a female. So she didn’t have much money, but that’s how she started flying with this civilian pilot training program.

So eventually, she and her brother bought a small plane. It was a taildragger. It was really underpowered. It was 50 horsepower. And they flew that, and they learned, but she did get her training through the Civilian Pilot Training Program. From there, they went on to the AT-6. The AT stands for advanced trainer. This was the first plane they flew that had retractable landing gear in a variable-pitch prop, and all the WASPs loved it. It had 650 horsepower, and it was aerobatic. And so all the WASPs, if you look at their gold medal, that AT-6 is on their gold medal. That was just one of the planes that they all flew.

In addition, after she got out of the WASPs, she flew a C-45, which was a light twin-engine plane. She flew a B-26, which was a bomber. She flew the UC-78, which was a twin-engine trainer. And her favorite plane, if you can believe it, was an A-24, a Douglas Dauntless dive bomber. And that’s the same plane at the Battle of Midway that turned the tide for the Americans.

Christy Hui:

Is that the Bamboo Bomber?

John Marsh:

The Bamboo Bomber is the UC-78.

Christy Hui:

Ah, okay.

John Marsh:

That’s a twin. But the reason it’s called that metal was in short supply, so a lot of the ribs and behind the skin were made of wood.

Christy Hui:

Wow.

John Marsh:

Years ago, they made planes with wood. You still see some of the experimental planes built using some high-grade woods rather than metals.

Christy Hui:

Now I read that your mom flew the B-26.

John Marsh:

Yes.

Christy Hui:

Which had a reputation for being the widowmaker, along with many, many other colorful nicknames I don’t want to repeat here.

John Marsh:

Yes.

Christy Hui:

Did she ever talk about what it was like flying that Marauder?

John Marsh:

She never did. No, I never heard … I wish I could ask these questions to her today. It’s just she’s not here to ask. So we never talked about it much.

Christy Hui:

I read that only 17 of the WASPs were trained to fly a B-26. So your mom was one of the 17 WASPs.

John Marsh:

Must have been, sure.

Christy Hui:

Yeah. That’s just amazing to think about that.

John Marsh:

Oh, it is. It really is. They trained the WASP, for instance, the B-17, the four-engine bomber, [inaudible 00:05:41] main state. Initially, I think the Boeing test pilot was killed in that plane, and then the engines were overheating. So that had a bad reputation also. And Paul Tibbets got a group of female WASPs together to fly this plane and land in different bases. And, “Hey guys, if these ladies can do it, you can do it.”

Christy Hui:

That’s a remarkable story, John.

John Marsh:

Oh, it’s amazing. One of the stories, and you listen to these stories. I go to Oshkosh and AirVenture and listen to their stories. At the end of the day, they would go down to the fill lake near where we stayed, and they’d have their cheese and crackers and talk about their stories. But one of the stories they told was flying in as a pilot, you’d call the airports, “Hey, I’m 10 miles north inbound. Request landing instructions.” Well, they did that in the B-17. After doing it once or twice, the tower came on the radio and said, “Would you ladies get off the radio? We’re trying to get a B-17 in.” It never occurred to them the ladies would be flying.

Christy Hui:

Exactly. That is hilarious, isn’t it?

John Marsh:

Oh, yeah. Some of the stories you heard, it makes you laugh.

Christy Hui:

One of the things that I think, through my research, that impressed me so much, and I am envious is the camaraderie they share as a group. Did you hear any stories about their camaraderie?

John Marsh:

Yeah, I could go on and on about that. They were so close. They kept in touch. I mean, they made best friends. The classmates kept in touch with my mother late in life. She had cancer, and they’d call her frequently, “How you doing?” So I get teary-eyed, but they were close. They were very, very close. They’d go to reunions, they’d hug each other, and catch up, “How are you? And tell me about your family.” You could see there was a lot of love for each other.

Christy Hui:

It’s a sisterhood.

John Marsh:

Yeah, absolutely. It was so fun being around them. It was just so fun.

Christy Hui:

And they had this sense of humor, too.

John Marsh:

Oh goodness, yes. Sometimes they’d steal each other’s stories. One would say, “That was my story. You can’t tell that.”

Christy Hui:

I love that. Yeah. I wish I could speak to some WASPs and just go back to memory lane and-

John Marsh:

Oh, I know.

Christy Hui:

Right? Yeah.

John Marsh:

At one point, there were 25 of them at Oshkosh, at that Oshkosh, Wisconsin AirVenture. So I call it Oshkosh, and the name is actually AirVenture, but it’s the big air show in Oshkosh every July. But when they first started going there, a lot of them weren’t wealthy. They were making peanut butter sandwiches for lunch. I mean, they were glad to be there, and they were treated like rock stars, but it was a struggle for some of them.

Christy Hui:

Did you ever hear your mom talk about some scariest things she ever did as a WASP or-

John Marsh:

Well, a lot of times, flying is just a lot of boredom followed by a scare here and there, and I’ve been down that road. At one point, I know she said the engines quit. And, of course, everybody on the plane was alarmed. One of the two gas tanks ran out. All she had to do was switch the tank to the other side, and the engine was caught, and they went on. But for the people on the plane, it was scary. For her, it was just another day.

So some of them talked about one of my friends, Shutsy-Reynolds, they had her testing an airplane, and they just put a new engine in it, and they hadn’t tightened up the bolts. She said it was vibrating so bad when she landed that she was concerned, “The engine, what’s going on?” They found the bolts were so loose the engine was barely hanging on. So they weren’t always fixed properly. “Let’s get it back in the air, and let’s keep this going.” And that’s how it was.

Christy Hui:

It’s like nothing can stop them.

John Marsh:

No, no. They were proud to do this. They were excellent pilots. I found later in life, all the WASPs still love to fly. My friend Shutsy-Reynolds, I don’t know if you’re familiar with the P-51. To me, that was the prettiest-

Christy Hui:

Yes.

John Marsh:

And there was a fellow from Texas, Cowden Ward would bring his P-51 to Oshkosh, and he gave rides to every World War II veteran, including the WASPs. So I got to know Cowden, but my friend Shutsy-Reynolds got a ride, and he said, “What kind of ride would you like? Do you want just a sightseeing flight, or do you want to do some light aerobatics?” She said, “No, I want to do hard aerobatics.” So they did loops and rolls for a half hour, and she had a big smile on her face when she got out. She was probably 85 or 90 years old at the time.

Christy Hui:

Wow. That sense of adventure.

John Marsh:

Oh, it’s-

Christy Hui:

Never fades.

John Marsh:

No, no, and they still love to fly. And they would go to the homecomings. A pecan plantation hosted the WASPs. It’s near Sweetwater, and one of the fellas in there had a plane called The Breezy, and it’s basically an open cockpit. There’s no fuselage. You just sit out there, almost like on a lawn chair. But the WASP waited in line to get on the ride on that plane. I mean, I went for a ride, and it scared me. I don’t like heights, if you can believe that, being a pilot. But yeah, they still love to fly.

Christy Hui:

That’s pretty remarkable. What are some of her favorite memories as a wasp that you’ve heard over the years?

John Marsh:

I wish I could remember even a couple of them. I always felt she was an excellent pilot. The first person I wanted to take for a ride when I got my pilot’s license was my mother. She just inspired me over the years to do this and move forward and stay with it. It’s a struggle, but boy, I took her up. I was impressed with how good she was as a pilot. Once you learn a little about flying, you can tell if the person beside you is a good pilot or mediocre or not so good. She was an excellent pilot. So some things like that, you have to fly with somebody to see how they fly.

Christy Hui:

So her love of flying passes onto you?

John Marsh:

Oh, yes. And then I have another brother that also is a pilot, and I have a sister that she sold a plane. She never got her private pilot’s license. And then I have a niece and a nephew, both commercial pilots. You may have met Katie Marsh out there at Sweetwater. She’s-

Christy Hui:

That’s right. She did a fly-in.

John Marsh:

Yeah, last year, she flew in an AT-6 dressed as a WASP. She was a re-enactor and flew in, in an AT-6, and so children were asking her for her autograph. It’s like, “Wow.”

Christy Hui:

Nice.

John Marsh:

And this year, she came in, and she brought her baby with her this year. She has a six-month-old baby, and the baby was in a flight suit. Just looked like the WASP uniforms they used to wear. It was too big [inaudible 00:13:08]-

Christy Hui:

On the plane with her?

John Marsh:

Yeah. This year she flew commercial. She was not the pilot. She was the passenger in the back, but they flew up from Key West. That’s where she spends her winters.

Christy Hui:

So baby in a baby WASP flight suit.

John Marsh:

Yes.

Christy Hui:

Love it.

John Marsh:

Oh, she’s already got the WASP uniform and the Fifinella on the baby and a patch with her name on it. I mean, you can tell this baby is going to be a future pilot.

Christy Hui:

Exactly. You said that your mom really didn’t talk much about her own experience as a WASP.

John Marsh:

Well, they just say, “We just did what we had to.” I felt all the ones I met were very humble. We just did what we had to. No big deal. In fact, I thought everybody growing up; their mother was a pilot. She’s not. So what? We flew. I thought nothing of it.

Christy Hui:

Right. It’s another day, flying.

John Marsh:

Yep. That’s what it was for them.

Christy Hui:

Yeah. That’s one of the things that I find it striking was how humble they all are.

John Marsh:

Oh, they were so humble, and you’d go to Oshkosh with them … For a while there, I was driving them to their talks in a golf cart. People, “Ma’am, I want to shake your hand,” and they were just, “Oh, we just did what we had to.” It always impressed me that they were literally like a rockstar at Oshkosh. When I went with Shutsy to some of these events like Oshkosh or Homecoming, people in the airport would come up, especially female commercial pilots. They would come up and say, “I want to shake your hand. You opened these doors for us.” Even one of the TSA agents, she was crying. She said, “I hoped I got to meet a WASP.” So what an experience. I mean, I took this for granted, traveling with them and being friends with them, and my mother was a WASP. But to other people, they were very, very special. They never met a WASP, just like yourself.

Christy Hui:

Did you think that if the WASP program wasn’t so successful during World War II that there would be no women flying for the military today?

John Marsh:

Not really. And the reason I say that, I think it was … Oh, let me see the year. There was a year when the military announced women were finally going to be able to fly military planes. I think that was in 1976. And boy, they got a lot of pushback. When the WASP heard, they stirred the nest a little bit. They came out and said, “No, we did this in World War II, and you’re not the first.” So they were quiet until you pushed on them, and then they pushed back. So I really believe they, but the military pilots, the female pilots of today, they really appreciate the WASP. A lot of know about it versus … I was surprised in 1976, the Air Force didn’t know about it.

Christy Hui:

That’s why we’re doing this.

John Marsh:

Oh, I know. I’m always-

Christy Hui:

And this is great. Yeah.

John Marsh:

I’ve met pilots at air shows that are in their 60s or 70s. I had a little pin on my ball cap. It was the same pin that was on their uniform. It says W-A-S-P. And I put that on my ball cap, and a pilot at an air show says, “What’s that stand for?” I said, “Well, what do you think it stands for?” He says, “White Anglo-Saxon Protestant.” I said, “No, not at all.” So it’s a chance to tell these people that never heard of the WASPs what they did.

Christy Hui:

So how did being a WASP change her life, do you think?

John Marsh:

Well, that’s a good question. Certainly, it gave her a lot of opportunities, and she continued to fly after she left the WASPs. And I’d look at later in life with the friendships she had. But she went back, like a lot of them, they went back to being a homemaker or doing what they were doing. I mean, someone in the WASP program told the ladies with the speed in the high altitude, they might not be able to conceive. Well, this was [inaudible 00:17:25], she says, “I showed them. I went home and had ten kids.”

Christy Hui:

And your mom had …

John Marsh:

She had eight children. So she was obviously very busy raising eight children. But she had time to fly occasionally, and again, I always enjoyed flying with her.

Christy Hui:

Yeah, the WASP certainly proved people wrong on many fronts.

John Marsh:

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Back then, many of the WASPs did not know how to drive a car, but they were flying these very complicated military planes.

Christy Hui:

You’ve got to be kidding me.

John Marsh:

No. Oh, no. I remember one of them telling somebody, “Would you go move that truck for me? It’s a stick shift. I don’t know how to do it.”

Christy Hui:

Now that’s a first for me to hear.

John Marsh:

Oh, it’s amazing, isn’t it?

Christy Hui:

Yeah. I still discover all these wonderful things about the WASPs.

John Marsh:

Yeah, they can’t drive a car.

Christy Hui:

Growing up, what was the best piece of advice that your mom gave you or your siblings?

John Marsh:

Oh, just don’t give up. Stay with it. Stay focused. And so, as a child, you don’t always listen to your parents. You’re going to learn and make some mistakes on your own, but she was a great mother.

Christy Hui:

Must be that sense of adventure that must be so much fun.

John Marsh:

Oh, and I think I’ve inherited it. I’ve been a pilot for over 50 years. There’s not much I haven’t done.

Christy Hui:

Do you fly commercially or-

John Marsh:

No. I had a plane for many years. I would use it to go visit my customers for my business, but I never got a commercial license. But it suited me fine. So it was certainly easy to get in the plane and go see a customer in Charlotte. You could be down there in a few hours, meet with the customer, have lunch, and be home in the afternoon. You couldn’t do that driving or commercial.

Christy Hui:

Do you keep in contact with some of the WASPs?

John Marsh:

Oh, yeah. Yeah. The few that are left. Shutsy-Reynolds live near me. She was a WASP, 44-7. And when my mom passed, she was running the stores for the WASP. And she lived about a half hour away. I think I went down to meet, Shutsy. I probably bought one of everything she had, books, pens, memorabilia. But her husband had passed, and she never had children. And I say, “Yeah, let me trim your shrubs. Let’s go to lunch. Let’s do this.” Eventually, I called her my honorary mother. We really got close. So she really inspired me. My wife escorted Shutsy on an honor flight. She really touched my life in so many ways.

Christy Hui:

I’d love to meet her and talk to her one day.

John Marsh:

Oh, I wish you could. Yeah, she’s not here anymore, but she-

Christy Hui:

Oh.

John Marsh:

I still wear the … She was a silversmith. She learned that after being a WASP. They were down in Panama and she learned silver-smithing, and so she had a little shop behind her house where she made silver jewelry, including these WASP wing rings. That’s hard to say, WASP wing ring. Anyhow, I wear that with pride. Shutsy and I made it together.

Christy Hui:

No?

John Marsh:

I don’t know if you had a chance to meet Blaze Jensen. She was a Thunderbird pilot. She was at homecoming. There was an Air Force poster showing her with her helmet in the uniform. If you look close on her wrist, you’d see a bracelet that Shutsy made. She was proud to wear that. She was friends with Shutsy.

Christy Hui:

Is that the lady who was the keynote speaker?

John Marsh:

No, she was the first F-16 pilot. Blaze was there. Blaze had a beige uniform. I shouldn’t say uniform, a beige flight suit on. But Blaze is also on the board of the WASP Museum. Very talented lady.

Christy Hui:

If you had to use three adjectives to describe the WASP, what would that be?

John Marsh:

Oh, persistent, driven, calm, humble. You didn’t push on them. They’d push back. I mean, they’re very gentle. But boy, you start pushing, you’re not going to get away with much.

Christy Hui:

Yeah.

John Marsh:

Yeah. They were humble to a point. But I’ve seen them where, “No, we’re not going to do that. We’re just not going to.” So they were very genteel until you stirred the pot a little.

Christy Hui:

The steel inside.

John Marsh:

Oh, yes.

Christy Hui:

Right.

John Marsh:

One of the stories, Marty Wyall was a WASP. She was friends with my mother. I spent time with Marty. She said when she was going into the WASP, whatever airbase she was located, they were going to give her a physical, and this general said, “I don’t believe women should be flying.” And she said, “Well, I don’t believe that’s your decision to make. I’d appreciate it if you’d pass along my physical.” And he said, “Young lady, you don’t talk to a general like that.” So anyhow, he did push her paperwork along, and she did become a WASP, but certainly, there was resentment, and I can see you’ve got men in the barracks, “What do we do with this lady?”

Christy Hui:

Sure, sure. It was a different time.

John Marsh:

Oh, sure it was.

Christy Hui:

There’s discrimination, there’s a female role, and a traditional view of what females should do.

John Marsh:

Yes.

Christy Hui:

And I think that’s why I admire these women so much. It was that they did it 80 years ago when the world was very different.

John Marsh:

Oh, absolutely. Yes, they really proved that they could do this. Their safety record was as good as the men’s. I think they flew 60 million miles. So they certainly proved they could do it. And I always felt, me personally, I think women make better pilots than men. I think they’re more careful. When you’re flying the airplane, you don’t force this thing. You don’t manhandle it or whatever the word is I’m looking for you. You’re gentle on the stick, and I think women are … They make better pilots. And I’ve said that to people. They said, “Why would you say that, John?” I said, “I believe that.” So that’s just my opinion.

Christy Hui:

And in your family, you have what, three women pilots?

John Marsh:

Yes. My sister was a pilot-

Christy Hui:

Oh yes.

John Marsh:

… my brother, that was a pilot, and then me, and then my other sister became a flight attendant for TWA when she got out of college.

Christy Hui:

That’s right, Kathleen.

John Marsh:

Right. You might have met Kathleen at the.

Christy Hui:

I met her at the Armadillo Race. She was a grand champion.

John Marsh:

Yes. What an honor.

Christy Hui:

Holding down the armadillo wasn’t that easy. She made it look easy, though.

John Marsh:

Yes.

Christy Hui:

That’s amazing. Well, I am thrilled to have talked with you and for you to share your Sunday with me.

John Marsh:

Well, I so appreciate you asking these questions and your interest in the WASPs.

Christy Hui:

May the spirit of the WASP live on and inspire all of us in our future generations.

John Marsh:

So agree. So agree.

Christy Hui:

That’s all for this episode. Thanks for listening to the Adventures In The Sky podcast. To all of you dreamers and doers, believe in your dreams, for when you dream and do, the sky’s the limit. Until our next story, unlock your extraordinary within and live inspired. To join the Flying Fillies Adventure Club, visit www.flyingfillies.com.

FLYING FILLIES — an inspiring WW2 book for kids is available on Amazon

P.S. The Marsh family donated Marie’s Congressional Gold Medal to the National Museum of the US Air Force in Dayton, Ohio.

Want to read more fun and educational blogs? Read this article on WW2 Facts For Kids! Happy reading.